Thanks for the fascinating discussion, everyone!

I know this is a late response but I have to say Lime Crime hasn't learned anything and deserves 0 second chances.

Personally, I subscribe to the philosopy of "promote what you love, don't bash what you hate". It's a lot less emotionally draining. 

I'll mention a negative experience, sure. Honesty is important. But if I don't like a particular brand, whether for customer service or ethics or just poor products, I probably won't talk about it much unless asked or it's directly relevant to something else I'm talking about. 

This is such a great topic. I had to smile to myself, because my family and friends tease me about my personal boycotts. I rarely completely have them & avoid a company, but when I do, I am resolute! I think this is an issue that really reflects the fact that we all vary so much in our personal priorities and motivations, and so there are countless valid responses and opinions. 

For me, as for so many others who have responded, great customer service can remedy innumerable problems. For that reason, I always try to give a company not only the opportunity to make something right, but to let them know what that would be for me. If I just give up on them without letting them know why they have lost a customer, it doesn't really benefit anybody -- they may lose the chance to rectify the issue, and I may lose the chance to continue purchasing from a company that does the right thing overall. In other words, I really try not to cut off my nose to spite my face. That being said, there are a few instances where I would be hard-pressed to change my mind: issues with safety violations (such as unhygienic practices or unsafe pigments/colors) and intentional fraud or unethical behavior come to mind.

I try not to hold grudges, because they do cost me mental energy sometimes, but once I am pushed over my line, it's relatively easy for me to just let go of a company. I have yet to truly be unable to find a similar product to one that I have given up. So it's not that I hold a grudge, it's more that they just made my decision-making process easier by narrowing down my options. It also means that I am more easily able to remain emotionally neutral when others like a company I don't support or vice versa. I have never understood the glitter-mobbing that goes on and it really turns me off.

I used to run a review website and I only had one company, now out of business, that gave me a hard time. Reviews were written on products that people bought themselves, no one got anything for free. When the owner of the company saw a negative review he went ballistic and threatened us right and left. He wanted that review down or he'd sue. We had no choice but to remove it even though it was legitimate. That was a company that none of us went near again. If he had other good products no one on our active website would have known after his behavior.

I think if the company has changed their ways and/or given great customer service I can forgive but then again do we ever quite forget??

Doe Deere is still stealing people's artwork and not crediting, still bad mouthing and then sucking up to the same people and aside from Lime Crime selling slightly better quality products not much has changed. The fact is she's still a sketchy person. Maybe for me it is a bit of a grudge but I don't care. I don't think I could even try to like a LC product after all she's done, I just don't want to be associated with that or encourage it with my dollars.

If I get burned by a company or the company does some rather shitty things (not talking little mistakes) I'm not one to give second chances. I haven't really seen a company actually turn things around completely so I might be swayed when one does. If a company just goofs and fixes their mistake I don't mind. Once Fyrinnae sent me the wrong order but the e-mailed me about it before I even got the package and let me know my correct order was on the way. Since they handled it correctly I still shop with them. I've had companies lie to me about shipping a package and give me repeated excuses like the post office is messing up or they're ill or their car died or their cat is missing- bull shit excuses and I had to file mail fraud to get a refund. I certainly am not giving a second chance to them.

This is a tough one and you make some excellent points. In 2 cases, the owners lied outright. To me, that's a ban for life. I can handle lots of things--and I don't think I'm unreasonable. I understand how "life happens". But telling the truth is important--I can't support a company when I don't trust them.

One I struggle with is Zoya. I *love* the polishes and products. They were my first love in 3-free polish. But I got treated like crap by customer service more than once. I stopped buying for awhile, then thought maybe I should give them a second chance--and they did it again. I'm a die-hard lacquerista so it's hard to take a stand....but I find that if I just wait, I'll find similar polishes or outright dupes. When I feel that their CS is no longer "the customer is always wrong" I might give them another chance.

I really don't know. I haven't personally had any big issues with a brand or its PR that would make me put them on my will not work with list. I really think it would vary on a case by case basis, and it would take quite a bit of time to observe their business practices to make me rethink my position.

Repeated shady practices would do it. For example, as a blogger I am familiar with bloggers having had their content stolen for major company campaigns, and if a company had more than one error in that area I wouldn't promote them. If they didn't learn their lesson about who they hire for their advertisements and it happened again I would assume they wouldn't have that much respect for bloggers and their work, and I therefore wouldn't want to promote them and bring them business.

I end up holding grudges less often out of customer service issues and more frequently over repeated poor product performance. No matter how lovely your lipstick or polish may look, if I have had multiple negative experiences with quality and wear, I simply will not buy your product. In fact, it may even affect the probability that I buy other products from you in the future.

The bottom line- all companies mess up and have a few hiccups here and there. This.. 90% of the time means PR will have to clean up and that involves lying. A stand becomes a grudge when a company does something to personally violate your beliefs and ethics. When it comes to cosmetic brands, there is very little that can be done to make me decide that I dont want to deal with them anymore. So my list is very short. For instance, there was a cosmetic company that sent a palette to a customer and one shade had full blown mold growing on it. She showed pictures in a forum (MUT) and they contacted her threatening to sue. Now, if that company had decided to replace and apologize, I would have no issue. But they decided to threaten, which made me decide to never buy from them. It's not about the mistake you make, it's how you fix it. You name a brand, I can name something they have done wrong.

I'd really like to see brands own up to their failures, and to see what they have changed. If there were a statement from Lime Crime apologizing for their mistakes, I would feel a lot better about their products. 

 Yay! An Ana! What a pleasant surprise!

Personally, how much I want the product factors in a lot to it for me, too. That's why I still buy nyx and sleek after their sale fails. but, I also factor in what I consider to be intent and culpability, because I am aware that sometime customers service representatives don't end up representing the company in such a good way, or that executives make derpy choices, or that sometimes things are just really busy and get out of hand. As long as I feel assured that whatever the issue is is not inherently malicious or consistently representative of the entire company, there's a good chance I will buy the products...eventually. Being able to handle an issue with poise is, obviously, a major boon for the company in my eyes, just as throwing a temper tantrum/trying to cover it up/shifting the blame is a major malus. I try to be pretty easy-going about this because all companies go through growing pains and make mistakes, and they cannot become better if they are never offered a second chance.

I refuse to give my money to companies I feel have some kind of major root or systemic error. Orglamix is a good example, and lime crimes is another for me, personally. Since I feel that the owner and founder has shown a pattern of malice, rudeness, harassment, and a bunch of other nasty stuff, I no longer have any positive expectations from her for the future, and that in turn has tainted my perception of the company to the point where I could not, morally, bear to use any of the products. Essentially the only way I would end up buying lime crime is if the company were seized/taken over by another entity and the connection to the original owner severed entirely, because I o not want to support her through the company.

These are just my PERSONAL policies, though. I don't think anyone should feel like they have to hold a grudge for any reason if they don't want to, and giving someone a second chance doesn't reflect negatively on your character at all. After all, you can still dislike a product/company without holding a grudge. It is smart to be prepared for negative outcomes, though, and to be able to gauge when you should just wash your hands clean of something entirely.

I think my attitude is similar to Ana's, as I'm not a blogger and haven't had similar situations to Phyrra's. It really depends on how much I want a product vs. how ready I am to 'forgive' whatever infraction they committed. It took my a good 9+ months for me to get over the whole NYX sale thing, and I didn't even want to, or try to, order. It wasn't the fact that they had troubles during the sale, but their attitude about it that turned me off. And I'm still ticked off at Sinful for stealing blogger pictures (don't know if they ever made that right, so I should look into that). But I don't know that I'd write them off completely. I think I could get over 'unprofessional' conduct, especially from a smaller company, as I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe something came up in their life and they handled the situation poorly. Who hasn't been there? As opposed to unethical behavior, I'd have a much harder time forgiving that. 

Good post with some excellent points, ladies!

This is such an important topic to address! There are a lot of companies that are on my "possible sh-t" list because the makeup community has done a great job documenting poor customer service, unsafe products, offensive ad campaigns, or making huge claims about product performance. It does sometimes feel daunting to weigh out what I feel is moral and ethical, what I know has happened, my interest in the product, and whether or not some of the experiences are true or not. I'm a researcher by trade, so maybe that's why I look for a definitive answer in terms of "Am I supporting something that's hurting people or doesn't care about their customers? ", but the more and more I become invested in the makeup blogging world the more I realize these questions are becoming more and more difficult to answer.

Here's my present "possible sh-t" list:

Lime Crime - The products seem to have improved, but the PR behind it hasn't. They've been stealing images, seem to really have it in for Christine from Temptalia and some other bloggers, and delete things off of their Facebook page all the time. I know that certain blog posts and an entire tumblr is dedicated to calling them out and that must be frustrating for them, but they're also putting a lot of fuel into their own fire. The Velvetines and Geradium lipstick though look nice and perhaps if they had a sale I'd consider trying it out. I just wish they'd really consider that the overly defensive/anyone who says anything negative about us are just "haters" is off-putting and takes away from their products.

Illamasqua - The blackface ad campaign rubbed me the wrong way and their kind of apology was even worse. There's nothing wrong with making a mistake, but I am tired of the you-don't-understand-my-art-plebeian! defense being brought up when there is valid criticism. I've tried their products and was impressed, but I'm still not sure I want to go back. 

Urban Decay - I've been a loyal fan of UD since I was a tween, never had any problem with their cosmetics, and have always gotten good customer service. Their flip on animal testing was really surprising and to me undermined so much of what they've stood for as a brand (and also why I was willing to spend more $$$ on their products). They've been an old reliable CF staple for me, but I'm not as comfortable supporting them now that they've decided to enter into the Chinese market.

As for my actual sh-t list:

Mon Ennui Cosmetics - I saw some of their drama from the Doe Deere Lies tumblr after the owner attacked the girl running the blog and they are just a big ol' clique of mean girls. The owner has no problem naming names, constantly puts down other brands and company owners, and intentionally makes copies of other companies' successful products. I'd be terrified to let this woman have any of my personal information.

Sigma - They've just made so many mistakes and been so aggressive with bloggers that again I wouldn't feel comfortable buying from them.

Bare Minerals - I have allergies to metals and when I asked the sales clerk for an ingredients list she just told me that everything was hypoallergenic, natural, and non-comedogenic and nothing would cause a reaction. I ended up having a huge allergic reaction to their mineral foundation, huge mistake for me to just trust a clerk without really knowing 100% the accuracy of their claims. I wish they would train their employees better to understand what type of questions they get.

Oh oh oh. Coastal Scents edited one of my product reviews and deleted another, but they left five-star product reviews from people who said in their comments that they  hadn't even received the product yet and were rating it five stars because they were "so excited to try this".... I will never order with them again. That's an example of acting in BAD faith. Dishonesty.

The only odd experience I ever had was with a company that I had JUST heard of, made two purchases from on Etsy, waited forever for my items to ship - and luckily, they (eventually!) arrived. But then, boom! Right after I got my order, everyone else was flipping out about theirs not arriving, the owner made countless excuses as to why, saying things had shipped, and then one day, disappeared from Etsy (and as far as I know, and according to the still-there Etsy feedback, TONS of people never received what they paid for)

. I was lucky in that I got my products (though sadly, the eyeshadows which were INSANELY GORGEOUS in the photographs, were barely-there with little color payoff when I got them... BUT, the owner had included like 6 full-sized freebies, I was SO torn), but if this shop ever resurfaces (am I allowed to say names? Rockabetty Beauty), I doubt I'd purchased again. I've Googled around and have seen very little mentioned on the topic, does anyone know what happened to this shop?

I spent hundreds of dollars with Pure Luxe before I saw the owner threaten a blogger with a lawsuit for raising questions about the safety of her blacklight eyeshadows. I won't shop there again, ever.

I don't shop at Ulta any more because their online shopping system and shopping cart are incredibly buggy and not connected to their inventory, and in this day and age, there is just no excuse for a company that size to do e-commerce so poorly. It took me three days and three phone calls to their customer service line to complete my last order with them - they had to get level 3 techs to take "ghost items" out of my cart and reset it, so I had to re-add everything. Then when I received my order, stuff was missing, and there was no invoice so I never knew exactly what I was charged for, or how (whether they honored their BOGO50 as advertised, etc.).  And this was the second order in a row that was such a headache, and there's just no excuse for it. They don't have anything I can't get somewhere else, so I'm done with them until or unless they start hiring some IT professionals.

I understand an indie "one-woman shop" occasionally having IT troubles but when e-commerce is one of your primary foundations for your business, do it right or pay someone who can.

E.l.f. messed up an order once and I wrote to them and they immediately shipped replacements next-day air.  The next time I ordered, it was messed up again, and I wrote to them, and they shipped a replacement again, next day air. Two messed up orders isn't a good track record, but I'm willing to try again because they made it right, ASAP, politely and contritely.

This is such a great post. 

I'm with @Mai at Portrait of Mai and @femmeinistgrrrl when it comes to Illamasqua.  As a WOC of beauty blogger, that whole Christmas campaign was such a slap in the face.  There's nothing short of a "wow, that was horrible of us, sorry" that will make me try that company.  They're not making anything unique that I can't find somewhere else.  

I guess in that same line, PR is a bigger issue for me than CS.  Since I work in CS, I know that sometimes we just have bad days or bad customers.  But PR is your job to make me like you, to make me want to buy your products, and if you are failing at that, you are failing your company.  Smashbox had a whole issue at a counter once where the MUA did not want to help a customer because she was too fat and Smashbox was not made for people like her. When she contacted Smashbox, they never apologized, instead practically confirmed what the MUA had said.  I think there's so many companies out there, that I can afford to be picky and have these high standards.  

Another big no for me is owners/brand faces.  LC has been mentioned a lot, so I'm not talking about that anymore.  But another example is the owner of American Apparel.  They have pretty clothes, "locally" made and all, but I cannot deal with that guy.  So I try to avoid that company as much as possible (which has become increasingly difficult).